Thanks for chiming in on this thread. It is much appreciated to get another viewpoint besides the one’s already expressed.

-e

I view Keen’s The Cult of the Amateur, and Lander’s Stuff White People like, more as ‘Zen koans’than anything else. I don’t think they mean for people to take them entirely seriously – although they do hit on very serious points. I think the authors are trying to point us in the right direction, but they want us to make the ‘discoveries’on our own. I think the authors are trying to prompt us to focus on what our values really are – they’re prompting self exploration – a counter to anti-intellectualism, and something beyond ‘unchecked relativism’.

“What you focus on, is what you’ll get more of.”

Yes, yes, yes! It is realizations like this which, I believe, the authors are trying to direct us towards …

It was unfair to point Mr. Keen has a total waste, and it was a bit of sensationalism on my part to tie in the strained use of the ‘Fail’meme I choose for my title. I don’t really apologize for it, as it was just written with the tone I generally reserve for rants of this nature. In other words I wrote it in the heat of the moment, capturing the initial outrage at the way he (incorrectly) portrayed a number of things I actually knew something about. In a ironic way, it served as self-referential commentary on the use of misrepresentation as a debate method. I did to him what he did to the projects I defended, and of course neither was actually true. They were merely truthy.

The real problem is that we are discussing this like engineers – that is we are thinking of this topic in black and white terms. When in fact, we are all elite and we are all dunces, and depending on the subject, the context, and the mood – we can fall on any point on that gradient imaginable. Sure, some of us fall closer to the idiot end of the spectrum more often than not, but that doesn’t mean that its the systems fault for being an expression of the collective experience of its operators. Nor do I believe that there is anything inherent in any of the current tools that bring out the baser sides of our personalities.

Its all about where you pay your attention. What you focus on, is what you’ll get more of. If you’re looking for evidence, you’ll always find it. And that, my friends, is the only thing I really hold against Andrew Keen.

You make some interesting points. I’m not terribly sure that the “rest of the world” (i.e. not us web-geeks) has the broad understanding of Wikipedia that we do. I think, as you’ll read along (or have it read to you – ha!), that when he details some of the nonsense and damage at Wikipedia, it makes you wonder if we haven’t (at least a little) lost our way.

I’m trying to remember how I felt at the early point in the book. I think I was still skeptical a bit too. But he just keeps hammering away and by the time I was done, I felt like saying, “Ah, screw it. Let’s just shut the whole thing down. It ain’t workin’.”

I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts after finishing. Maybe you’ll be able to restore my hope. You are right to point out that Keen missed that caveat about classical music.

I would differ in your description of Keen. He’s hardly a failure. He’s an active writer who gets paid a lot more than us to write about all manner of things on the net (I guess a bit like John Dvorak, but younger and British). The fact that his first idea tanked and didn’t become Amazon or Napster doesn’t, in my mind, devalue his opinion. On the contrary, he’s had actual experience building apps with thousand so users and was an O’Reilly insider (and I guess still is). We are, by nature, the outsiders and the critics. His blog is interesting (and also depressing) reading as he continues pointing out examples of the noob patrol running amok at Web 2.0 companies (and of course users).

I think my lasting impression that still is clouding my every post and comment is that I too am as much of the problem. Despite the fact I might “get” something that others don’t, or that I want to “help” people by sharing something (a video, some words of wisdom, a link to a helpful website, etc), that I’m only contributing to the noise, drowning out the real wisdom, and just attempting to shape those around me with my own worldview, no matter how “sane” my view might be when compared to others. I guess what I’m saying, what’s the point of even making THIS comment (from the standpoint that others may read it)? Heavens, in reality, I’d rather them not read you or me, but go read something of value: Moby Dick, the Bible, Shakespeare,… something. Not waste away reading our two cents worth.

Heck right behind me could come an equally valid comment about “Death to Nazi’s” or “Buy Viagra”… ha ha…

Still, while I can’t see myself being non-participatory (it just ain’t my way) in any given setting (a blog, a restaurant gathering, etc.), I would say the impression I’m left with at the end of Andrew’s book is that we all must do better. We have to elevate. He doesn’t say this in so many words, so I’ll probably expand upon this (and some strategies for how to do this) later. I think we’ve let the internet’s penchant for anonymity, snarky comments, poorly documented references, corruption of intellectual property rights, and the inclusion of all facts as equal to other facts have it’s way with us and we’ve slowly begun sliding down the pit toward… what I don’t know. Anarchy? Stupidity?

I say “we” are doing this, and certainly some of are doing this in far greater ways than others (Numa numa! ha!). And certainly, as you point out, this problem isn’t germane to the internet, as even ten minutes of watching American Idol will prove – and I’m not just referring to the contestants, but that we would consider those three fools “judges”, or the audience as “rational”. What about morning radio Zoo shows that our culture seems to tolerate? Maybe you or I don’t listen or watch that stuff, but there is a steadily growing percentage of the population that seems to do so – all the while demanding more and more “base” entertainment, while reading less, working less, doing less, and building less.

It’s a class warfare of a different type – and it’s even sucking in those of us who are smart enough to know better. I read one fellow’s blog who in between incredible insights about all manner of business acumen, he puts up reviews of movie trailers. Not movies. Trailers. And writes about as passionately about them as if they were real life events. I’m more than guilty of doing similar stuff. And we wonder why the major media (right or wrong) scoffs at bloggers and thinks they shouldn’t be given the time of day. We respond in knee-jerk fashion to every rumor and opinion. We write poorly. We have our posts “edited” by our readers – not by editors.

I could go on – but it isn’t relevant to what you’re saying. I think the bottom line is that maybe you’re on to something. Some kind of solution? Some of kind compromise between Dunceville and Elitism? I can only hope.