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	<title>Comments on: You got GPL in my peanut butter</title>
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		<title>By: Eric Marden</title>
		<link>http://xentek.net/articles/826/you-got-gpl-in-my-peanut-butter/#comment-1868</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Marden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xentek.net/?p=826#comment-1868</guid>
		<description>Indeed. Its quite hard to perform code publicly, and while it could be likened to the program execution, all software licenses agree on one thing: you&#039;re allowed to run the program (even if some licenses require certain conditions be met before you can run them).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed. Its quite hard to perform code publicly, and while it could be likened to the program execution, all software licenses agree on one thing: you&#8217;re allowed to run the program (even if some licenses require certain conditions be met before you can run them).</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Marden</title>
		<link>http://xentek.net/articles/826/you-got-gpl-in-my-peanut-butter/#comment-1867</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Marden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xentek.net/?p=826#comment-1867</guid>
		<description>For works I want to release commercially, I retain copyright or use a non-ShareAlike version of the Creative Commons, for everything else I default to the ShareAlike licenses. Most of the music I listen to is rooted in a long and storied &#039;remix culture&#039; and much of my music comes incorporates found sounds and other sampling techniques. Some of those elements are fair use and others aren&#039;t and my thinking around these types of works are a bit different than software, given that pulling elements out of a piece of music is not the same as mixing in code from other sources - there&#039;s almost an implicit amount of creative effort required to pull it off, something that&#039;s not quite true for software development where whole passages can be lifted without changing a thing. This thinking can and does break down under heavy scrutiny but this is how I think about it at least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For works I want to release commercially, I retain copyright or use a non-ShareAlike version of the Creative Commons, for everything else I default to the ShareAlike licenses. Most of the music I listen to is rooted in a long and storied &#8216;remix culture&#8217;and much of my music comes incorporates found sounds and other sampling techniques. Some of those elements are fair use and others aren&#8217;t and my thinking around these types of works are a bit different than software, given that pulling elements out of a piece of music is not the same as mixing in code from other sources &#8211; there&#8217;s almost an implicit amount of creative effort required to pull it off, something that&#8217;s not quite true for software development where whole passages can be lifted without changing a thing. This thinking can and does break down under heavy scrutiny but this is how I think about it at least.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Marden</title>
		<link>http://xentek.net/articles/826/you-got-gpl-in-my-peanut-butter/#comment-1866</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Marden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jul 2010 22:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xentek.net/?p=826#comment-1866</guid>
		<description>Demetris,

Matt didn&#039;t insinuate that Mark&#039;s article was about why savvy users should seek out GPL software - that was clearly Matt&#039;s own opinion. 

Mark&#039;s article did however specifically call out the GPL (with no specific mention of any other licenses) and even spends two paragraphs detailing why and how the GPL specifically protects user&#039;s freedom due to its insistence on variants, forks, and derivatives of the original software must bear the same license.

You are correct that an open source license can change if all of the copyright holders can come to an agreement to change the license, but given the sheer number of contributors to most large GPL code bases, it becomes a matter of impracticality: finding all of the contributors to sign off on such a change would be a monumental task and I can think of only one piece of software that did it, which is squeak (there may be others, but this is the only one I know of).

Regardless, WP is not going to change licenses anytime soon, and Matt&#039;s personal decision tree for license choice is a matter of preference and not universal law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Demetris,</p>
<p>Matt didn&#8217;t insinuate that Mark&#8217;s article was about why savvy users should seek out GPL software &#8211; that was clearly Matt&#8217;s own opinion. </p>
<p>Mark&#8217;s article did however specifically call out the GPL (with no specific mention of any other licenses) and even spends two paragraphs detailing why and how the GPL specifically protects user&#8217;s freedom due to its insistence on variants, forks, and derivatives of the original software must bear the same license.</p>
<p>You are correct that an open source license can change if all of the copyright holders can come to an agreement to change the license, but given the sheer number of contributors to most large GPL code bases, it becomes a matter of impracticality: finding all of the contributors to sign off on such a change would be a monumental task and I can think of only one piece of software that did it, which is squeak (there may be others, but this is the only one I know of).</p>
<p>Regardless, WP is not going to change licenses anytime soon, and Matt&#8217;s personal decision tree for license choice is a matter of preference and not universal law.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Beard</title>
		<link>http://xentek.net/articles/826/you-got-gpl-in-my-peanut-butter/#comment-1865</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Beard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jul 2010 19:53:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xentek.net/?p=826#comment-1865</guid>
		<description>My understanding of CC licenses is that they have a different purpose, and that there are some things that cover public performance which aren&#039;t the same as GPL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My understanding of CC licenses is that they have a different purpose, and that there are some things that cover public performance which aren&#8217;t the same as GPL.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Price</title>
		<link>http://xentek.net/articles/826/you-got-gpl-in-my-peanut-butter/#comment-1864</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jul 2010 12:23:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xentek.net/?p=826#comment-1864</guid>
		<description>As a musician, what do you have to say about the &quot;Share-Alike&quot; variant of the Creative Commons? Are your feelings the same when it comes to other creative media?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a musician, what do you have to say about the &#8220;Share-Alike&#8221; variant of the Creative Commons? Are your feelings the same when it comes to other creative media?</p>
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		<title>By: Demetris</title>
		<link>http://xentek.net/articles/826/you-got-gpl-in-my-peanut-butter/#comment-1863</link>
		<dc:creator>Demetris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xentek.net/?p=826#comment-1863</guid>
		<description>Eric,

Read carefully what Matt says.

First he compares the MIT license with the GPL license to explain why he prefers the latter for substantial works.

(The comparison, by the way, says something inaccurate:  That an MIT license can change any day, while the GPL prevents that.  That is not true:  Any license can change any day as long as the copyright owners agree to change it.)

Then he goes on to cite Mark Pilgrim’s article as a cautionary tale of why “savvy” users should have the same preference.

Now go and read carefully what Mark Pilgrim writes.

Mark Pilgrim would have written the same article if WordPress was licensed under another FREE license.  The four freedoms Pilgrim cares about (freedoms 0, 1, 2 and 3) are all guaranteed by ANY free license, of which, as I said, there are many: MIT/X11, Apache, BSD, GPL — the list is long.  (See the link I gave above.)

Mark Pilgrim’s article is about FREE licenses and about the pitfalls of non-free licenses.  It is not about which license prevents restrictive relicensing  (the problem with MT is that its license was restrictive BEFORE the relicensing), it is not about the GPL, it is not about WordPress and the GPL, and it certainly is not about why the GPL license is better or worse than the MIT license, or about why “savvy” users should choose the one or the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric,</p>
<p>Read carefully what Matt says.</p>
<p>First he compares the MIT license with the GPL license to explain why he prefers the latter for substantial works.</p>
<p>(The comparison, by the way, says something inaccurate:  That an MIT license can change any day, while the GPL prevents that.  That is not true:  Any license can change any day as long as the copyright owners agree to change it.)</p>
<p>Then he goes on to cite Mark Pilgrim’s article as a cautionary tale of why “savvy” users should have the same preference.</p>
<p>Now go and read carefully what Mark Pilgrim writes.</p>
<p>Mark Pilgrim would have written the same article if WordPress was licensed under another FREE license.  The four freedoms Pilgrim cares about (freedoms 0, 1, 2 and 3) are all guaranteed by ANY free license, of which, as I said, there are many: MIT/X11, Apache, BSD, GPL — the list is long.  (See the link I gave above.)</p>
<p>Mark Pilgrim’s article is about FREE licenses and about the pitfalls of non-free licenses.  It is not about which license prevents restrictive relicensing  (the problem with MT is that its license was restrictive BEFORE the relicensing), it is not about the GPL, it is not about WordPress and the GPL, and it certainly is not about why the GPL license is better or worse than the MIT license, or about why “savvy” users should choose the one or the other.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Marden</title>
		<link>http://xentek.net/articles/826/you-got-gpl-in-my-peanut-butter/#comment-1862</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Marden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xentek.net/?p=826#comment-1862</guid>
		<description>While that is true, Demetris, the article specifically calls out WordPress and the GPL. Matt linked to the article as an example of another personal account of someone&#039;s relationship to the GPL. Thanks for you comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While that is true, Demetris, the article specifically calls out WordPress and the GPL. Matt linked to the article as an example of another personal account of someone&#8217;s relationship to the GPL. Thanks for you comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Demetris</title>
		<link>http://xentek.net/articles/826/you-got-gpl-in-my-peanut-butter/#comment-1861</link>
		<dc:creator>Demetris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xentek.net/?p=826#comment-1861</guid>
		<description>@Matt

Freedom 0 is a great article and, in my mind, one of the most important milestones in the history of WordPress.

But the “freedom 0” it talks about (“The freedom to run the program, for any purpose”) is not a unique feature of the GPL. It is a feature of ALL free licenses, of which there are many[1] (including the MIT license and several other well-known and widely-used licenses).

For this reason, it is misleading to present the Freedom 0 article as an argument for the GPL exclusively or explicitly.  The Freedom 0 article is an argument for ALL free licenses.

[1] List of free and non-free open-source licenses according to the GNU project: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Matt</p>
<p>Freedom 0 is a great article and, in my mind, one of the most important milestones in the history of WordPress.</p>
<p>But the “freedom 0” it talks about (“The freedom to run the program, for any purpose”) is not a unique feature of the GPL. It is a feature of ALL free licenses, of which there are many[1] (including the MIT license and several other well-known and widely-used licenses).</p>
<p>For this reason, it is misleading to present the Freedom 0 article as an argument for the GPL exclusively or explicitly.  The Freedom 0 article is an argument for ALL free licenses.</p>
<p>[1] List of free and non-free open-source licenses according to the GNU project: <a href="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Eric Marden</title>
		<link>http://xentek.net/articles/826/you-got-gpl-in-my-peanut-butter/#comment-1860</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Marden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xentek.net/?p=826#comment-1860</guid>
		<description>The relative value of the code - both to the developer and the end user was playing at the back of my mind as I was writing this but didn&#039;t find a way to bring it up, so I appreciate you raising the topic.

Given the relative size of the project now I absolutely think going with the GPL was a smart move. The end-user freedoms afforded by the GPL have in no small part fueled the growth of the WordPress ecosystem - a platform and community that drives over 80% of my business now. The only unfortunate thing, I feel, is that we are locked into v2 - when newer versions (some that may not even be written yet) may  strengthen the GPL&#039;s position and couch its definitions to reflect modern computing conditions.

Copyright, GPL, and related issues are deeply nuanced subjects that aren&#039;t so easily delivered as cliff notes. Each time I question my assumptions about copyright and open source licenses I learn something new about it, and about myself.

- Eric

P.S. - Thanks for the link. I&#039;ve read it before, but its been a while. Going back to read it now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The relative value of the code &#8211; both to the developer and the end user was playing at the back of my mind as I was writing this but didn&#8217;t find a way to bring it up, so I appreciate you raising the topic.</p>
<p>Given the relative size of the project now I absolutely think going with the GPL was a smart move. The end-user freedoms afforded by the GPL have in no small part fueled the growth of the WordPress ecosystem &#8211; a platform and community that drives over 80% of my business now. The only unfortunate thing, I feel, is that we are locked into v2 &#8211; when newer versions (some that may not even be written yet) may  strengthen the GPL&#8217;s position and couch its definitions to reflect modern computing conditions.</p>
<p>Copyright, GPL, and related issues are deeply nuanced subjects that aren&#8217;t so easily delivered as cliff notes. Each time I question my assumptions about copyright and open source licenses I learn something new about it, and about myself.</p>
<p>- Eric</p>
<p>P.S. &#8211; Thanks for the link. I&#8217;ve read it before, but its been a while. Going back to read it now.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://xentek.net/articles/826/you-got-gpl-in-my-peanut-butter/#comment-1859</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://xentek.net/?p=826#comment-1859</guid>
		<description>I completely support people releasing their own work under other Open Source licenses, and I respect that decision the same way I would hope people respect the WP community&#039;s decision to contribute to GPL software. Let me describe my personal decision tree for picking a license.

The main difference to me is whether or not you care what happens to your code after it&#039;s out in the world. If I&#039;m doing small libraries or throwaway snippets I choose MIT because it has basically no restrictions and sounds cool. It can be embedded and reused and misused till the cows come home.

When I create a more substantial work, though, particularly one that targets end-users as the primary audience, I choose GPL. With MIT someone could take my code under free terms and then subject their own users to highly restrictive, freedom-limiting terms. I consider this a bad thing because it&#039;s a net loss of freedom in the world, my work is enabling someone else to restrict their users. All the power is in the hands of the developer, they could even arbitrarily change their license from day to day. The GPL prevents that, and I consider that a more free license because the restriction on the developer that you can&#039;t harm your users by restricting their freedom I don&#039;t see as a negative at all because it ultimately benefits the world by increasing net freedom.

In the end, the GPL protects users, and savvy users should seek GPL-style software wherever possible. For better writing than I could do on this, and with a real-world example, check out Mark Pilgrim&#039;s essay Freedom 0, it&#039;s worth re-reading a few times.

http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/05/14/freedom-0</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely support people releasing their own work under other Open Source licenses, and I respect that decision the same way I would hope people respect the WP community&#8217;s decision to contribute to GPL software. Let me describe my personal decision tree for picking a license.</p>
<p>The main difference to me is whether or not you care what happens to your code after it&#8217;s out in the world. If I&#8217;m doing small libraries or throwaway snippets I choose MIT because it has basically no restrictions and sounds cool. It can be embedded and reused and misused till the cows come home.</p>
<p>When I create a more substantial work, though, particularly one that targets end-users as the primary audience, I choose GPL. With MIT someone could take my code under free terms and then subject their own users to highly restrictive, freedom-limiting terms. I consider this a bad thing because it&#8217;s a net loss of freedom in the world, my work is enabling someone else to restrict their users. All the power is in the hands of the developer, they could even arbitrarily change their license from day to day. The GPL prevents that, and I consider that a more free license because the restriction on the developer that you can&#8217;t harm your users by restricting their freedom I don&#8217;t see as a negative at all because it ultimately benefits the world by increasing net freedom.</p>
<p>In the end, the GPL protects users, and savvy users should seek GPL-style software wherever possible. For better writing than I could do on this, and with a real-world example, check out Mark Pilgrim&#8217;s essay Freedom 0, it&#8217;s worth re-reading a few times.</p>
<p><a href="http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/05/14/freedom-0" rel="nofollow">http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/05/14/freedom-0</a></p>
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